Mami Wata Healers Society of North America

Edited by Kweku Azikiwe Mensah

“Because the Vodoun religion was a

driving force in fighting against slavery and oppression, it was always viewed as a threat to colonial power and rule. ”

Mami Wata Healers Society of North America

A T A H E A L E R S S O C I E T Y M A M I W A

OF

N O R T H A M E R I C A I N C .

Publishers Note: This interview was originally published May 2001, on About.com by Nigerian (About.com) African Cultures host, Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi. Due to the sudden closure of the the African Cultures segment segment featured on About.com, About.com, this interview has been reprinted here in its entirety. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What do you regard regard as the unique structure structure of the Vodoun? Mama Zogbé: Unlike the strict parameters that are drawn in Western religions between the secular and non-secular world, Vodoun is a tradition that is all encompassing in all aspects of ones life. From the temporal to the spectacular. From pre-birth to the afterlife, the Vodoun is intrinsic intrinsic in all aspects aspects of one’s existence. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi:




What is the relationship relationship between between "Vodun" and "Voodoo?" "Voodoo?" Are they one and and the same thing?

Mama Zogbé: The relationship is largely one of regional, linguistic, cultural, ethnic and even political variations in both its spelling and meaning. In the Fon language, the word "Vodou" simply means "Spirit." The word "Spirit," simply is a term used to describe the specialized Nature divinities served in the Vodoun tradition. This is the term and meaning that the majority in the West are familiar with. However, in the Ewe language the word "Vudu" not only describes the divinities of Nature, but the entire philosophical and metaphysical essence of the African's existence, and their relationship with both the world of matter and how it interacts with the world of spirit. This world is viewed as both divine and efficacious, in which the quality of life is predicated upon maintaining a harmonious balance between the two. When the Africans were transported to the New World, the religion became considerably maligned and actively suppressed by the colonial government. This was so because the Vodou's philosophical and political structure and cultural manifestation emphasized the warrior gods who sustained and directly aided the Africans in their numerous slave rebellions, and ultimately their freedom from the brutal system of chattel slavery slavery forced upon them. Unfortunately, Vodou's image was controlled by the media of these respective colonial governments, and their orthodox religious clergy, whom presented it as something "dark, evil and subversive." It is also they who coined the spelling "Voodoo." Nevertheless, Vodou's meaning and hidden practice by the African Diaspora continued to symbolize their active resistance to oppression, as well as a special intimacy with Africa, their ancestors, and the gods that would not leave their blood. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What's the origin of of Vodun? Mama Zogbé: To begin, most in the West have been taught to attribute both Vodoun's existence and subsequent development exclusively to the Fon, a West African ethnic group




who inhabit the country of Benin (the former Dahomean Kingdom) in West Africa, and later to Haiti upon its arrival in the New World. In truth, there were more than 35 different ethnic groups in West Africa, extending as far as southwest Senegal (ancient Ghana), to Abeokuta in Nigeria, who are responsible for the development of the Vodoun religion. From the Mina, Ewe, Fon, Gwa, Tchamba, Adja, Yoruba, Nago, Goun, Holli, and Aizo, to the Mahi, Bariba, Phila-Phila, Asante, Anlo-Ewe,Taneka, Dindi, Peulh, all contributed to what later came to be known as the Vodoun Religion. Further, the Fon were not the major group. It is the Ewe of Togo, (of whom the Fon are a subgroup), who actually introduced the word "Vudu." Additionally, another popular misconc Additionally, misconception eption regarding Vodoun's origin, is that it was developed in Haiti when African slaves were transported transported to the New World. And that it owes it very existence to the consorting of the various indigenous Indians, Christian Europeans, and other non-African populations who settled into Haiti. However, it is important to acknowledge that Haiti has only been an independent republic since 1804, and some anthropologists have estimated estimated Vodoun to be as much as 10,000 years old. Though the above facts might appear minor, this historical omission is important to correct, because to attribute Vodoun's origin and development exclusively to Haiti, is to deny the direct ancestral spirit and ethnic lineages of the millions of Africans brought to the New World carrying the Vodoun in their blood, who are not either native to, nor ancestrally linked to Haiti. My own great-great-great grandparents who were priests in the Vodoun, but are not of Haitian descent are an example of this. Undoubtedly, the Vodoun tradition was already well established, completely developed and a widely practiced religion prior to its arrival in Haiti. It is also the official religion in Benin, the only African country that still proudly recognizes its Traditional Religion, as oppose to a Western faith imposed on most African republics in order to legitimize themselves as a civilized nation. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: How is the practice of Vodun in Africa different from the practice of Voodoo in Haiti? Mama Zogbé: The practice and structure of the Vodoun religion in West Africa differs markedly in that its practicing population makeup is specific to the regional ethnic groups whose descendants were responsible for its development. With rare exceptions, it also does




not incorporate any Western religions such as Catholicism, nor non-African indigenous groups or traditions into its ancestral pantheon or ritual manifestations. One would find a more similar relationship between the Ifa the Ifa Orisha tradition of the Yoruba and West African Vodoun (of Benin, Togo, and southwest Ghana) as it is currently practiced in Africa, than they would between West African and Haitian Vodou. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: Some people refer to Vodun as barbaric because it uses animal sacrifice as part of its worship. What's What's your reaction reaction to that perception? perception? Mama Zogbé: Because the Vodoun religion was a driving force in fighting against slavery and oppression, it was always viewed as a threat to colonial power and rule. Thus, it became imperative to both outlaw and debase all aspects of its practice and true beneficent nature. Hollywood and ambitious Christian evangelicals have been the main perpetrators of this often racists malignment. Often portraying its priests, diviners, herbalists, and healers, as little more than blood-thirsty charlatans, animal butchers, shameless shameless frauds and psycho-fanatics. In truth, African ritual practices are no different in dimension or effect than any other traditional religions practiced around the world. Such is also the case with animals, which are and have always been sacred in the Vodoun religion. Their consecrated use is the exact same as it has been practiced for centuries in the Judaic, Greek, Roman, Indian, Asian, and yes, Islamic traditional religious practices practices.. What is equally interesti interesting ng to note is that these same animals that are offered as sacred and often shared in communal meals with the ancestors and Vodou gods, (i.e., chicken, goat, turkey, etc.,) are impassionedly bred, chemically fed, and sacrificed everyday in slaughter houses by the millions in the most brutal, and inhumane way, for nothing more than to satiate the pleasure palate and voracious appetite of the West. This is more humane? Clearly, it is a matter of perception perception.. Nonetheless, for those still unconvince Nonetheless, unconvinced d I have included a resource list of Animal of Animal sacrifice Around the World , including in Christianity on another FAQ page.

Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi:




What's the role of of magic in your religion? religion? Is it meant to to deceive or prove its potency? potency? Mama Zogbé: This is perhaps one of the biggest myths regarding the esoteric understanding of African Traditional Traditional Religions in general, general, and the Vodoun religion religion in particular. particular. There is no use of magic in Vodoun as it is understood and practiced in the West. However, there are aspects of phenomena, or what some would regard as "miracles" that are made manifest by the Vodou spirits themselves. But, these manifestations in no way involve the use of "magic" or "trickery" as Hollywood has often misrepresented it. Additionally, Additionall y, to attribute the concept of "deception "deception"" to the Vodou is to completely misunderstand the philosophical and practical nature of the Vodou divinities. The ethical and moral structure structure of the West African Vodoun religion, religion, by definition is to uphold and honor the Divine Law as taught to and passed down to us from our very first African ancestors who served the Vodou spirits. It is in the Vodou that all aspects of ones nature is actually revealed and (if necessary) exposed before the world in order that one may *not *not * deceive either themselves nor their community. This is merely, one of the ways that harmony and balance is achieved, achieved, by exposing exposing those who would deceive. deceive. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: There have been allegations that most Voodoo adherents believe in life after death. What is your position position on this issue? issue? Mama Zogbé: Yes, this is correct. correct. The concept concept of death and its alleged alleged permanency permanency is foreign in African religions religions in general. general. Life is continuous, continuous, and immutable. immutable. That is how the world of the Ancestors Ancestors exist. exist. This is not a "belief" "belief" or something something that has to be quantitatively measured measured and proven, but is a known fact to the practitioner. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What about the claim claim that some some people who are known known to have died are resurrected resurrected and live on as zombies? Mama Zogbé: This is also another Hollywood myth more imputed to Haitian than West African Vodoun. "Zombies" do not exist in West African Vodoun. And what is attributed to Haitian Vodou is more sensationalist hype, regarding the specialized use by some




Bokors (sorcerers) of a fugu poison (teterododoxin (teterododoxin)) extracted from the blowfish, to affect the appearance of death.

Much was made of this in Wes Craven's morbidly sensational movie "The " The Serpent and the Rainbow," Rainbow," allegedly based upon the book of the same name, written by Wade Davis, a Harvard research scientist who went to Haiti on behalf of pharmaceutical companies to explore and learn the secrets of the use of this poison. However, this too remains on the margins of Haitian Vodou, and in no way characterizes Vodou proper, no more than Satanism characterize Christianity proper. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What is the place place of the zombie in an an environment that that thrives on equality equality for all? Mama Zogbé: Same as above. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: Some of the problems with many religions is that they tend to thrive on superstition. Should we as human beings allow ourselves to be trapped by the superstition or learn to leave above it? Mama Zogbé: When one is missing the experientia experientiall and divine experience in their religious life, they are quick to accuse those who emphasize and celebrate this of being "superstitious," when in reality, it is they who may lack this important spiritual fulfillment. One that Western religions are often accuse of lacking. In African religions, the experiential is real as oppose to merely emotive hyperbole, or dry intellectual reasoning and theoretical discourse. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi:




Apart from serving serving as a medium of of communication communication between humans humans and the higher authority most religions also claim to have many answers to the world of here and now. To what extent does your religion provide immediate answers in the medical and psychological field of human endeavors? Mama Zogbé: In the Vodoun religion as practiced in West Africa, and now here in the Diaspora, divination and spirit possession is the main method that is used to achieve this goal.

Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: Do you like some other religions aggressively seek new membership? Mama Zogbé: Vodoun is not an apocalyptic apocalyptic,, nor messianic messianic religion. Though we have have what are equivalent to "prophets/prophetess, "prophets/prophetess, avatars, and sages," (called Togbuis in Togo), they do not force blind compliance via end-of-the-world" prophecies. prophecies. There is also no savior that one must canvass the community to force others to "believe" or suffer the torments of "hell." There simply is no recruitment campaign campaign because Vodoun is first, foremost, and inextricably at its cosmological core, an Ancestral tradition. No one can honor and communicate with your direct ancestors except for you. Additionally, Additionall y, the Vodou spirits come in the blood of the the African and the the Diaspora. It is also the spirit who chooses whom they want to serve them. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: Could you explain for those who may be interested the processes of admission and initiation into your religion. Mama Zogbé: There is no "admission" process per se into the Vodou. One is either born with the Spirit or one is not. If they are, certain carefully tailored ceremonies are implemented to bring bout their new identity as clergy or congregant. In other cases anyone can be "chosen" via possession, and trained to serve the spirit, though their level of both development and service is somewhat different. However, it is not necessary to be initiated to serve ones ancestors nor to offer general service to the Vodou spirits, no more than one has to be Catholic to pray to the Saints. I offer more information about initiation and its requirements s on my website, West African Vodoun, http://www.mamiwata.com




Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What is the structure structure of the administration administration of your religion? religion? Mama Zogbé: It is similar in many ways to Western religion. Briefly, one has the " sentura", a person who respects the Law, and who simply honors their ancestors and the spirit, and worships during ceremonies. There are theVodunsi, theVodunsi, one who has been consecrated to the service or protection of a particular divinity. There are the Sofos [Chiefs] or priests, Ahougans priests, Ahougans,, and Mamisiis who makeup the various Mamisiis’ ’ who priestly classes.

Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: Do you have what might compare to what the catholic church has as their Pope? Mama Zogbé: No. Contrary to popular misconceptions, misconceptions, there is no official "pope" of the Vodoun in West Africa. All All claims as these are merely merely political and not not practical. practical. The very nature of both the Vodou, and the ethnic lineage's of those who possess them, makes this impossible. For example, most of the priesthood in Togo & Ghana have never even met (the now deceased) Sossah Gedehougan or even know of his existence. Each ethnic clan have their own chiefdoms. In the case of the Ewe, it is the "Awoamefia" located in southwest, Ghana. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What is the process process of advancement advancement and promotion within the hierarchy hierarchy of your religion? Mama Zogbé: This too is ancestral ancestrally ly determined. There are no "promotions "promotions"" as it is defined by Western standards. standards. One can can however, develop themselves through through study, apprenticeship apprentice ship and devotion. However, the rewards are material, spiritual and personal as oppose to political. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi:




Is membership of your religion limited to only members of one race? Mama Zogbé: At its cosmological cosmological core, the the Vodou is an ancestral ancestral tradition. tradition. All races can can learn to honor their own ancestors using traditional African practices, and offer prayer gratuity to the Spirit as a Vodunsi. However, the African and the Diaspora have had a special relationship relationship with the Vodou for thousands of years. The Vodou gods come in the blood of the African, and many are even born from direct lineages of these gods. It is they who experience the most profound disturbances in their lives when they forget, either deliberately or thru social conditioning/amnesia who they are. When the religious religious practices were outlawed in America, America, the spirits spirits never left the blood of the Diaspora. Diaspora. Therefore, many many suffered then, then, as they do today without without ever knowing the true nature of their problem. African religions have also experienced a phenomenal increase increase within the past 10 years, of the Wicca, ex-Wicca, and neopagan populations. Somewhat reminiscent reminiscent of the invasion of Eastern religions by the West in the 50s-60s, 50s-60s, who have flocked flocked to her doors; doors; sporting bought initiations, initiations, and some have started businesses. Many have produced most of the commercial websites and "New Age" literature on their understanding of what Vodoun is to them. This is largely what the public sees when they conduct a search of "Voodoo" on the internet. Unfortunately, because they lack direct ancestral ties in the tradition, their emphasis Unfortunately, is focused mainly on the "power" of the divinities and what they've been told that they can manifest from them, as oppose to acknowledging and honoring the African ancestorss who carry the "ase" (power). They have yet to understand that in order to ancestor really know the mysteries, there is no getting around the African ancestors and those who carried carried these mysteries mysteries in their blood and and were enslaved here here in the West. For it is the Ancestors who control the mysteries. And it is this key understanding that should never be lost to the descendants (African Diaspora) Diaspora) who have ancient biological roots and important spiritual spiritual bonds to these primal primal and deific ancestors. ancestors. If they should loose this basic concept, then the religion is little more than another Western, superficial, superficial, New Age commercial commercial "spiritual" "spiritual" fad. The Vodou Vodou spirits will will never, ever come to them no matter what they've been led to believe. That is why this website (as are are others in the Diaspora) Diaspora) is very important important in the cyber-community. cyber-community. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: What is the rate rate of growth in population population and size of your your religion? Mama Zogbé:




Today, there are more than 30 million adherents world-wide. And that is a conservative conservati ve estimate. As a very dark remnant left from the history of slavery and discrimination in the West, African religions are still some of the most maligned and misunderstood misunders tood religions in the world. Many are forced through both persecution and fear, to hide their practices practices.. However, the Pope recently apologized for the Catholic Church's role in demonizing African religions, and has invited other Western institutions to be more tolerable. Additionally, organizations organizations such ours Mami Wata Healers Society (formerly OATH), and the work that me and some priests from Togo, West Africa are are doing in the community, community, to resurrect resurrect the lineages in the Diaspora, as well as the notable notable work of others others fighting to mainstream mainstream these these traditions, this undeserved image is changing. Dr. Austin Ogunsuyi: 19. What would be one thing you can point to that would make someone desire to become a member member of your religion when when there are tougher tougher competitors out there. Mama Zogbé: The Vodoun has no need to compete with anyone. As far as the birthright of the African, Western Western religions might be conditioned conditioned into their psyche, psyche, but the Vodou is in their blood, and has been for thousands of years. For the non-African, those who are attracted to or feel that they are "drawn" to the tradition, they will come on their own volition. Those whom the spirits chooses will also come. That is why there are no solicitors knocking on ones door. This would serve no beneficent purpose, for we cannot choose for the spirit. Finally, because of their Earthly & transformative nature, the Vodoun and other African religions will someday become the "saving grace" for millions who painfully acknowledge a world that has become increasingly more impersonal, alienated and de-spiritualized for them. Our Ancestors and religions will gain their rightful place amongst the world's major religions. It is only a matter of time.



Mami Wata Healers Society of North America

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